<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: A Brief Summary of Sexism in GTA IV</title>
	<atom:link href="http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/</link>
	<description>If (VideoGames.subtype(Art)==true) { return (</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:43:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: eleniel</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator>eleniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-537</guid>
		<description>Great details and clarification, thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great details and clarification, thank you!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sparky Clarkson</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-536</link>
		<dc:creator>Sparky Clarkson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-536</guid>
		<description>Lack of female characters with depth may not be the best phrasing, if only because none of the male characters are particularly complex or layered. Relative to the standard of the game, there are some reasonably deep female characters, and a couple of women -- Mallorie, Michelle, Kate, and maybe Elizabeta -- play significant roles in the plot. The difference is in screen time -- you will be seeing a lot more of the men in the cutscenes -- and in that a much higher percentage of the female characters are *optional*, taking the form of random encounters or dates. There is definitely a profound imbalance between the number of female and male mission-givers.

In addition to the overtly offensive things that have been mentioned, I thought there was another, more subtly troubling issue. Relative to the males, female characters are lacking in agency. This is a tricky thing to assess in a game like this, where, after all, every character has serious agency issues (that&#039;s why they need Niko in the first place). Still, it feels like the female characters have less going on, and are less capable of acting on their own than the male characters. Compared to mission-givers of similar level, female characters tend to be more passive and dependent on Niko. Random encounters Ilyena and Marnie, for instance, seem to be totally helpless when compared to encounters like Jeff. All of these characters need Niko&#039;s help, but the women give the impression that they can&#039;t do anything without Niko, while the men are active and turn to Niko as a last resort. Consider, for instance, that Marnie needs Niko to drive her to the train so she can escape town and her drug addiction, while Brian and Mel begin twelve-step programs on their own initiative.

Similarly, Elizabeta Torres gives the impression of needing Niko more than the men. Compare her missions to those of Jimmy or Ray, who have elaborate schemes already in progress that they plug Niko into at the last moment, and you get the impression that her operation is (more) slipshod and incompetent. Her reaction to her impending imprisonment is to sit in her apartment and collapse, and once she goes inside the joint that&#039;s the end for her. Contrast this with Gerry McReary, who responds to surveillance with nothing more than a little increase of caution, and continues to orchestrate elaborate criminal schemes from prison. Or Jimmy Pegorino, who takes measures to eliminate people he thinks may be snitches.

Even when you *do* get a sense of depth in the female characters, you don&#039;t get a sense of power or ability. Niko never finds himself on the weak side of a power relationship with a woman, though he often finds himself in this position with men like Dmitri, Ray, and Mr. U.L. Paper. GTA IV presents women as weak, passive and reactive, while the men are comparatively more able and proactive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lack of female characters with depth may not be the best phrasing, if only because none of the male characters are particularly complex or layered. Relative to the standard of the game, there are some reasonably deep female characters, and a couple of women &#8212; Mallorie, Michelle, Kate, and maybe Elizabeta &#8212; play significant roles in the plot. The difference is in screen time &#8212; you will be seeing a lot more of the men in the cutscenes &#8212; and in that a much higher percentage of the female characters are *optional*, taking the form of random encounters or dates. There is definitely a profound imbalance between the number of female and male mission-givers.</p>
<p>In addition to the overtly offensive things that have been mentioned, I thought there was another, more subtly troubling issue. Relative to the males, female characters are lacking in agency. This is a tricky thing to assess in a game like this, where, after all, every character has serious agency issues (that&#8217;s why they need Niko in the first place). Still, it feels like the female characters have less going on, and are less capable of acting on their own than the male characters. Compared to mission-givers of similar level, female characters tend to be more passive and dependent on Niko. Random encounters Ilyena and Marnie, for instance, seem to be totally helpless when compared to encounters like Jeff. All of these characters need Niko&#8217;s help, but the women give the impression that they can&#8217;t do anything without Niko, while the men are active and turn to Niko as a last resort. Consider, for instance, that Marnie needs Niko to drive her to the train so she can escape town and her drug addiction, while Brian and Mel begin twelve-step programs on their own initiative.</p>
<p>Similarly, Elizabeta Torres gives the impression of needing Niko more than the men. Compare her missions to those of Jimmy or Ray, who have elaborate schemes already in progress that they plug Niko into at the last moment, and you get the impression that her operation is (more) slipshod and incompetent. Her reaction to her impending imprisonment is to sit in her apartment and collapse, and once she goes inside the joint that&#8217;s the end for her. Contrast this with Gerry McReary, who responds to surveillance with nothing more than a little increase of caution, and continues to orchestrate elaborate criminal schemes from prison. Or Jimmy Pegorino, who takes measures to eliminate people he thinks may be snitches.</p>
<p>Even when you *do* get a sense of depth in the female characters, you don&#8217;t get a sense of power or ability. Niko never finds himself on the weak side of a power relationship with a woman, though he often finds himself in this position with men like Dmitri, Ray, and Mr. U.L. Paper. GTA IV presents women as weak, passive and reactive, while the men are comparatively more able and proactive.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: While !Finished &#187; GTA IV Post Updated</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-503</link>
		<dc:creator>While !Finished &#187; GTA IV Post Updated</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-503</guid>
		<description>[...] Read the post here.   Share This Post: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read the post here.   Share This Post: [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thefremen</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-502</link>
		<dc:creator>Thefremen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-502</guid>
		<description>I think if you had played it through this would be all the better for it, but the GTA games are entirely too long to play through just for the basis of coming to a more complete conclusion about its content. I&#039;ve played through GTA III, Vice City and most of San Andreas. All of them suffer from the same issues that Halo suffers from. The writers for GTA games apparently just watch Boys in the Hood, Scarface or The Godfather, take some of the scenes out of context and form gameplay around them. (Halo does this with Full Metal Jacket, apparently)

The only legitimate defense of the majority of the characters treating women like objects and rape as just another way to have sex is that these are common attitudes of career criminals. Of course the problem is that these same traits are found even in characters who are reluctant criminals or even good guys. 

I think, on the whole, GTA III served to create the &quot;Open World&quot; game mechanic and the series&#039; sales have helped create later games such as AC, Prototype and the like so it has contributed beneficially to gaming but personally I&#039;ve lost my taste for this series which has chosen to muck around in the ghettos year after year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if you had played it through this would be all the better for it, but the GTA games are entirely too long to play through just for the basis of coming to a more complete conclusion about its content. I&#8217;ve played through GTA III, Vice City and most of San Andreas. All of them suffer from the same issues that Halo suffers from. The writers for GTA games apparently just watch Boys in the Hood, Scarface or The Godfather, take some of the scenes out of context and form gameplay around them. (Halo does this with Full Metal Jacket, apparently)</p>
<p>The only legitimate defense of the majority of the characters treating women like objects and rape as just another way to have sex is that these are common attitudes of career criminals. Of course the problem is that these same traits are found even in characters who are reluctant criminals or even good guys. </p>
<p>I think, on the whole, GTA III served to create the &#8220;Open World&#8221; game mechanic and the series&#8217; sales have helped create later games such as AC, Prototype and the like so it has contributed beneficially to gaming but personally I&#8217;ve lost my taste for this series which has chosen to muck around in the ghettos year after year.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eleniel</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-501</link>
		<dc:creator>eleniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-501</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think, ethically, that you have a responsibility as a writer and critic to play through the game before you write about it.&quot;

I completely disagree.  One of the points of this post was to describe &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; I and others refuse to play the game.  Secondly, this was meant to be an overview, not an in-depth analysis, as well as a compilation of critiques of sexism in GTA IV.  I would certainly play the game before doing my own analysis.

If people tell me about game content that is misogynist, I don&#039;t have an ethical responsibility (or any responsibility) to see for myself, especially when that would cost me money and cause stress and frustration.  I don&#039;t need to experience it for myself to know that fucking a prostitute and then killing her is sexualized violence against a woman.  (For another example, see my brief Golden Axe: Beast Rider post.)  But if I&#039;ve made any factual errors here, please let me know.

That said, this post is from a year and a half ago, and now that my work is getting more attention I&#039;m being more diligent about experiencing games first-hand as much as possible, and I only write in-depth critiques of those that I have completed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think, ethically, that you have a responsibility as a writer and critic to play through the game before you write about it.&#8221;</p>
<p>I completely disagree.  One of the points of this post was to describe <i>why</i> I and others refuse to play the game.  Secondly, this was meant to be an overview, not an in-depth analysis, as well as a compilation of critiques of sexism in GTA IV.  I would certainly play the game before doing my own analysis.</p>
<p>If people tell me about game content that is misogynist, I don&#8217;t have an ethical responsibility (or any responsibility) to see for myself, especially when that would cost me money and cause stress and frustration.  I don&#8217;t need to experience it for myself to know that fucking a prostitute and then killing her is sexualized violence against a woman.  (For another example, see my brief Golden Axe: Beast Rider post.)  But if I&#8217;ve made any factual errors here, please let me know.</p>
<p>That said, this post is from a year and a half ago, and now that my work is getting more attention I&#8217;m being more diligent about experiencing games first-hand as much as possible, and I only write in-depth critiques of those that I have completed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Yuzun Kang</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-500</link>
		<dc:creator>Yuzun Kang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-500</guid>
		<description>Not to discount your concern, which is a valid and important one, but it worries me that you haven&#039;t actually played through the game.  I think, ethically, that you have a responsibility as a writer and critic to play through the game before you write about it.  You write that your points have been &quot;confirmed by people who have played the game, or by game play footage.&quot;  That&#039;s not good enough. And it&#039;s patently unfair to the developers and, ultimately, to any readers.

We are essentially talking about an interactive medium.  How can we validly talk about the experience if we neglect to choose to bypass that interactivity? You have to engage the designed system.  If you want to win the lottery, you have to buy a ticket.

I&#039;ve enjoyed your writing, and strongly believe that you&#039;re a good counterweight to the sausage fest that is the gaming blogosphere (present company included), but I wanted to mention this because I think you&#039;re better than this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to discount your concern, which is a valid and important one, but it worries me that you haven&#8217;t actually played through the game.  I think, ethically, that you have a responsibility as a writer and critic to play through the game before you write about it.  You write that your points have been &#8220;confirmed by people who have played the game, or by game play footage.&#8221;  That&#8217;s not good enough. And it&#8217;s patently unfair to the developers and, ultimately, to any readers.</p>
<p>We are essentially talking about an interactive medium.  How can we validly talk about the experience if we neglect to choose to bypass that interactivity? You have to engage the designed system.  If you want to win the lottery, you have to buy a ticket.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve enjoyed your writing, and strongly believe that you&#8217;re a good counterweight to the sausage fest that is the gaming blogosphere (present company included), but I wanted to mention this because I think you&#8217;re better than this.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: El machismo en los videojuegos &#124; Ecetia</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>El machismo en los videojuegos &#124; Ecetia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 06:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-95</guid>
		<description>[...] con un sexy vestido de noche, con una pistola sujeta a la liga. Aunque mejor eso que lo visto en GTA, donde un altísimo porcentaje de mujeres son prostitutas dispuestas a lo que haga falta, si [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] con un sexy vestido de noche, con una pistola sujeta a la liga. Aunque mejor eso que lo visto en GTA, donde un altísimo porcentaje de mujeres son prostitutas dispuestas a lo que haga falta, si [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Reflecting on the murder of Melissa Batten</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Reflecting on the murder of Melissa Batten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-5</guid>
		<description>[...] but they are wrong. For one, games like the GTA series rely on sexualized violence and otherwise reflect sexist dynamics in order to add to their realism. Tying it into an example closer to real life, consider the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] but they are wrong. For one, games like the GTA series rely on sexualized violence and otherwise reflect sexist dynamics in order to add to their realism. Tying it into an example closer to real life, consider the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Life and Times of a Video Game Design Student &#187; Reflecting on the murder of Melissa Batten</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>The Life and Times of a Video Game Design Student &#187; Reflecting on the murder of Melissa Batten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-2</guid>
		<description>[...] but they are wrong. For one, games like the GTA series rely on sexualized violence and otherwise reflect sexist dynamics in order to add to their realism. Tying it into an example closer to real life, consider the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] but they are wrong. For one, games like the GTA series rely on sexualized violence and otherwise reflect sexist dynamics in order to add to their realism. Tying it into an example closer to real life, consider the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/02/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 00:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whilenotfinished.theirisnetwork.org/2008/05/a-brief-summary-of-sexism-in-gta-iv/#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Hey Dan, no problem! &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That&#039;s an interesting article.  I don&#039;t think I was really on the gaming websites much when San Andreas came out so the huge amount of hype really surprised me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dan, no problem! </p>
<p>That&#8217;s an interesting article.  I don&#8217;t think I was really on the gaming websites much when San Andreas came out so the huge amount of hype really surprised me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
